NADS step by step guide

[Rumcajs]

In the worst case scenario I'll try to fill in those blank images from my own collecting if Dronus can't be bothered anymore. He hasn't been around lately and that includes all other Patrol forums.

Regards

[Craig Holman]

Hi,

     New here to this forum.

I have a 2005 patrol and looking to fit the nads system to it.

Does anyone have a copy of the pictures that are at the beginning of this thread that show the step by step procedure of installing this system and in what order i should start the process.

Thanks in advance.

Craig

[admin]

I have restored the images into the original posts for you. The original poster used PhotoBucket, which has since stopped providing free image hosting. I was able to upload the images directly to the forum, where they should stay forever.

[Craig Holman]

2 hours ago, admin said:

I have restored the images into the original posts for you. The original poster used PhotoBucket, which has since stopped providing free image hosting. I was able to upload the images directly to the forum, where they should stay forever.

Cool thanks for that.

One more question. I have an egr shim ready to go in. Do i wait until i have my boost and egt gauges and put them in at the same time??

Ta

Craig

 

[Rumcajs]

Install boost and EGT gauges first. You will need them to setup boost control correctly and you need to have some sort of boost control in there if you are shimming EGR as well.

 Alternatively you can consider re-map of engine ECU which means no more limp problems as 05 Di is very sensitive to changes in boost control (which will get affected with EGR shim installation) which means you will be constantly playing with boost control, trying to tune it out but it is a loosing battle especially on series 4 because beast behaves completely different subject to ambient temperatures.  Series 4 is not as NADS friendly as earlier versions .

Indeed NADS is a part of complex web of fiddling with the car until you're no longer expecting issues.

Every change you introduce will affect the outcome. 

My order of things would be:

1. Boost and EGT gauges

2. Electric fuel lift pump with fuel cooler and spill line bypass (lots of benefits with added IP protection) and Provent catch can (oil separator)

3. ECU-remap (alert! heaps of power but also with a lot of black smoke under full pedal) with max boost controller and/or retaining factory turbo solenoid or  manual boost control with needle valve and Dawes/Tilix valves

4. Glow plug timer mod (or just manual overide with momentary switch)

5. intake hose and air cleaner lid mod

6. EGR shim (not needed if ECU re-mapped)

Regards

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Rumcajs

[Craig Holman]

On 8/24/2017 at 10:33 PM, Rumcajs said:

Install boost and EGT gauges first. You will need them to setup boost control correctly and you need to have some sort of boost control in there if you are shimming EGR as well.

 Alternatively you can consider re-map of engine ECU which means no more limp problems as 05 Di is very sensitive to changes in boost control (which will get affected with EGR shim installation) which means you will be constantly playing with boost control, trying to tune it out but it is a loosing battle especially on series 4 because beast behaves completely different subject to ambient temperatures.  Series 4 is not as NADS friendly as earlier versions .

Indeed NADS is a part of complex web of fiddling with the car until you're no longer expecting issues.

Every change you introduce will affect the outcome. 

My order of things would be:

1. Boost and EGT gauges

2. Electric fuel lift pump with fuel cooler and spill line bypass (lots of benefits with added IP protection) and Provent catch can (oil separator)

3. ECU-remap (alert! heaps of power but also with a lot of black smoke under full pedal) with max boost controller and/or retaining factory turbo solenoid or  manual boost control with needle valve and Dawes/Tilix valves

4. Glow plug timer mod (or just manual overide with momentary switch)

5. intake hose and air cleaner lid mod

6. EGR shim (not needed if ECU re-mapped)

Regards

 

Hi.

Question

Why do we need the electric fuel lift pump? and what would be the best one to get? and also would getting a chip do the same as getting the ecu remaped??

 

 

 

[Rumcajs]

On 9/30/2017 at 9:56 AM, Craig Holman said:

Hi.

Question

Why do we need the electric fuel lift pump? and what would be the best one to get? and also would getting a chip do the same as getting the ecu remaped??

 

 

 

G'day,

An aditional electric lift pump is needed because built in supply pump in the injection pump of Bosch/Zexel VP44 is struggling to deliver enough fuel especially at lower RPM for all the duties the fuel is required to do e.g. combustion, cooling, hydraulic actuation and lubrication. As it is it just barely keep up and even then only at higher RPM from about 1800 up subject to load.

Most commonly people use either Carter 4600/4601 series pumps ==> Carter 4601 in GU Patrol ( I fully recommend you watch/follow rest of the videos/info from Ross aka "Geeyoutoo" )

Another pump is Walbro FRB13 series. Walbro has an advantage of being flow through pump (that means if it stops working fuel can go through) whereas with Carter one has to make by-pass circuit in such case...

If you are wondering why it feels so sluggish on take offs that's what is the cause, as the RPMS are low there is not enough fuel to actuate injection advance mechanism sofuel  injection is retarded and the response is hence slow.

Then there is cooling and lubrication part, as any starvation will start ruining the injection pump which is very expensive to fix, some would argue that is not even designed to be rebuilt especially the electronics side.

I can tell you that just by fitting the lift pump I noticed improvement in low RPMs response. Another positive event is that if you your own servicing priming the fuel system is a breeze as well.

As with the chip vs remap, there is no contest remap wins heands down.  I have Safari Dtronic chip sitting on the shelf as a paper weight now, sure it made some improvements over stock setup but nothing sort of expectations the glossy ads make it up to be. See this ==> NIssan Patrol ECU re-map

The problem with GU4 series ZD30 is that Nissan was rather too conservative on the emission side and made control system to go in to limp mode at slightest whiff of sensory overload so just fitting diesel chip will cause issues instantly. Fitting Dawes and needle valve causes the same so any gain power/performance will come back adn bite if the limps are not taken care of....

Re-mapped ECU has no such problems as re-map removes those silly limps and other performance limiting parameters set there to comply with whatever idiotic ideas they had at the time.

Honestly, the re-map output is so much that it makes me wondering what it does to the engine reliability even though ZD30 has it pretty low from the factory anyway.

To summarize, re-map is less hassle, cost about the same as piggy back chip and as long as you don't mind black smoke the performance output is nothing short of incredible I kid you not. And as someone who had a fair share of mods induced limps and attempts to beat them I would not go back to original factory tune ever again.

Regards

Edited October 3, 2017 by Rumcajs

[Craig Holman]

18 hours ago, Rumcajs said:

G'day,

An aditional electric lift pump is needed because built in supply pump in the injection pump of Bosch/Zexel VP44 is struggling to deliver enough fuel especially at lower RPM for all the duties the fuel is required to do e.g. combustion, cooling, hydraulic actuation and lubrication. As it is it just barely keep up and even then only at higher RPM from about 1800 up subject to load.

Most commonly people use either Carter 4600/4601 series pumps ==> Carter 4601 in GU Patrol ( I fully recommend you watch/follow rest of the videos/info from Ross aka "Geeyoutoo" )

Another pump is Walbro FRB13 series. Walbro has an advantage of being flow through pump (that means if it stops working fuel can go through) whereas with Carter one has to make by-pass circuit in such case...

If you are wondering why it feels so sluggish on take offs that's what is the cause, as the RPMS are low there is not enough fuel to actuate injection advance mechanism sofuel  injection is retarded and the response is hence slow.

Then there is cooling and lubrication part, as any starvation will start ruining the injection pump which is very expensive to fix, some would argue that is not even designed to be rebuilt especially the electronics side.

I can tell you that just by fitting the lift pump I noticed improvement in low RPMs response. Another positive event is that if you your own servicing priming the fuel system is a breeze as well.

As with the chip vs remap, there is no contest remap wins heands down.  I have Safari Dtronic chip sitting on the shelf as a paper weight now, sure it made some improvements over stock setup but nothing sort of expectations the glossy ads make it up to be. See this ==> NIssan Patrol ECU re-map

The problem with GU4 series ZD30 is that Nissan was rather too conservative on the emission side and made control system to go in to limp mode at slightest whiff of sensory overload so just fitting diesel chip will cause issues instantly. Fitting Dawes and needle valve causes the same so any gain power/performance will come back adn bite if the limps are not taken care of....

Re-mapped ECU has no such problems as re-map removes those silly limps and other performance limiting parameters set there to comply with whatever idiotic ideas they had at the time.

Honestly, the re-map output is so much that it makes me wondering what it does to the engine reliability even though ZD30 has it pretty low from the factory anyway.

To summarize, re-map is less hassle, cost about the same as piggy back chip and as long as you don't mind black smoke the performance output is nothing short of incredible I kid you not. And as someone who had a fair share of mods induced limps and attempts to beat them I would not go back to original factory tune ever again.

Regards

So is it still worth putting the daws system on the gu4 or just do the fuel lift pump and ecu remap. im also looking at putting an exhaust on it aswell. Also fitting the fuel lift pump will help the cooling and lubrication aswell or is that a seperate thing again??

Sorry about all these questions but i just want to know witch is the best way to go for my gu4 before i start buying bit and peices.

[Rumcajs]

7 hours ago, Craig Holman said:

So is it still worth putting the daws system on the gu4 or just do the fuel lift pump and ecu remap. im also looking at putting an exhaust on it aswell. Also fitting the fuel lift pump will help the cooling and lubrication aswell or is that a seperate thing again??

Sorry about all these questions but i just want to know witch is the best way to go for my gu4 before i start buying bit and peices.

Well it is really your choice. However if you do go down re-map route technicaly you don't need Dawes valve system to put in, "Geeyoutoo" has re-experimented and refitted factory boost control solenoid back in and apparently it works quite well with re-maped ECU. (one of the reasons we fit Dawes/Tilix and needle valve system is to take away control of the turbo from factory setup ECU to make sure that boost is not dropped off during the cruise when ECU also opens EGR valve which is a big problem, however with re-mapped ECU this is taken care off as a part of the re-map modification)

Personally I'd still combine the systems if wanting to retain existing factory boost control, that is: fit Tilix valve instead of Dawes and retain factory boost control solenoid with re-mapped ECU. That way you can control max boost spikes with Tilix and have the ECU controlling the boost as well which saves you on meddling with spool up rate of the turbo.

As with the lift pump yes it will also improve cooling and lube by delivering more fuel in to the injection pump. You must modify fuel spill line (so called spill line mod) before fitting lift pump though otherwise you'll have major issue/failure.

You must understand that these mods work together and screw up everything in standalone configuration. So just fitting a bigger exhaust will have consequences which are not positive if no other mods are performed (it will limp like crazy everytime you are too eager on go pedal)

*Modify fuel spill line (re-routing it to fuel return line to fuel tank instead as factory done plummed to suction line at the injection pump inlet)

*Fit electric fuel lift pump

*Fit re-mapped ECU ,you can/could keep your original ECU and ask for another ECU (second hand if they have one which will add extra $$$ to your bill but if things go "South" you always have the original,  talk to the gents first.

*Fit Tilix valve (same as Dawes but works better and is locally sourced)  Tee it in and set it up for max boost of 22-24 psi with OEM boost control solenoid

*Fit bigger exhaust.

 

 

Regards

Edited October 4, 2017 by Rumcajs

[Ghost]

Sorry coming in late to the dicsussion, I am assuming this mod can be applied to D22 Navara with ZD30 DDT?

[Rumcajs]

11 hours ago, Ghost said:

Sorry coming in late to the dicsussion, I am assuming this mod can be applied to D22 Navara with ZD30 DDT?

D22 Navara ZD30 uses different fuel and turbo management.

It has fixed geometry turbo (so No  you can't use Dawes or Tilix and needle valve) you can use waste gate by pass valve like from Turbo smart or Boost Tee or similar.

There is no MAF so no need for voltage modifier of that signal unless you want to apply it to MAP/boost sensor,  indeed Navara is easier to mod in regards to turbo pressure

All the other mods you can do.

Regards

[Ghost]

Thanks Rumcajs, appreciate it

 

[petro]

Hello people  
I am new in this forum.
I have Nissan patrol GU zd30 and i want to upgrade intercooler and going to install water air intercooler on my zd30.  Someone have experience about it? What i must consider?

[Rumcajs]

G'day

Don't waste your $$$ on that exercise. Water to air intercooling is a massive compromise and not very efficient one either.

You will be much better off in improving existing air to air intercooling minus less hassles with coolant pipes etc.

Regards

[petro]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:58 AM, Rumcajs said:

G'day

Don't waste your $$$ on that exercise. Water to air intercooling is a massive compromise and not very efficient one either.

You will be much better off in improving existing air to air intercooling minus less hassles with coolant pipes etc.

Regards

It isn't waste my $$$. It's cost 100$ on aliexpress.com. I must fit new water radiator and little electric water pump. And as i know it is much more efficient then air to air intercooler. 
My friend fit water to air intercooler on OM606 and it's working very well.

[Rumcajs]

2 hours ago, petro said:

It isn't waste my $$$. It's cost 100$ on aliexpress.com. I must fit new water radiator and little electric water pump. And as i know it is much more efficient then air to air intercooler. 
My friend fit water to air intercooler on OM606 and it's working very well.

Okay, each to their own.....

technical facts are that water to air inter-cooling is not as efficient as air to air systems.

Unless you are planning completely self closed system independent of engine cooling system where the cooling liquid medium is also something else then water the air to air system is better.

Pure fact is that inter-cooling or heat exchanging via engine coolant will always stop at engine operating temperature in this case 87°C to 89°C vs air inter-cooling which at its worst will be usually at 20°C above ambient air temperature so even in the extreme outback scenario of 50°C ambient air temperature the air intake temperature is at 70°C still

 less then it would be with other application. The key is the lower the temperature of incoming air the more dense it is therefore more oxygen is available to the engine combustion process.

In most if not all automotive applications the water inter-cooling is done because either air to air system is not possible or impractical or as a cheaper arrangement to improve on no inter-cooling at all.

That is however not always the case indeed air to air and water to air can complement each other too subject to non standard or more complex turbo charging systems like sequential multi turbos systems for example.

It is uncommon to switch from air to air systems to water to air systems unless there is a specific reasoning and or additional changes are made for the applications.

Since ZD30 is already inter-cooled even though it is TMIC (Top Mounted Inter Cooler) which has it own issues with heat soak switching to engine coolant based inter-cooling seems like a backward step. Going FMIC (Front Mounted Inter Cooler) under specific set of circumstances is the improvement.

Unless of course you are planning something very special but given you mention the cost of $100, it is very unlikely though do tell us what is the system like.

The best bet would be to combine the two perhaps.

Regards

Edited July 26, 2018 by Rumcajs

[Hewey]

I'm looking into doing all these mods as I have engine light reoccurring losing power up hills even went into limp mode yesterday for the first time

[Freddy]

 

 

Hello, I have a zd30, and I have two doubts, should I remove the catalyst? and the second the EGT sensor installed it before the turbo or after it? I think that before it will indicate a higher temperature since the turbo dissipates. greetings from Argentina.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Freddy
change language

[Rumcajs]

G'day,

Removing DOC (catalyst ) is mostly illegal but depends on country where you live, I'm not sure what regulations are there in Argentina. I'd remove it (factory unit) but install high flow aftermarket unit to stay legal if needed.

EGT probe is before turbo charger is harder to install and yes it will show higher temperatures. Installed after turbo is OK and easier.

Regards

[Freddy]

 

 

thank you very much for the answer, in Argentina there are regulations .. but very limited .. I could remove the catalyst without legal inconvenience .. only the conscience .. and the EGT meter will try to front .. if it gets complicated, I will go behind 😆☺️

[Rollinbob]

Hello to all, I am a new member, just purchased my 3rd Patrol.

This NADS conversion, is it also nessesary for a 2009 version?

My mechanic has suggested the gauges but not the rest, what are your thoughts?

Regards. Bob.

[Rumcajs]

Hello,

I agree, just gauges would be enough so you're aware what is going on. CrD uses different ECM controls therefore playing around with various aspects of insufficient controls from previous model is probably pointless.

But I'd check how does glow circuit behave and if it does the same silly behaviour as in Di I'd fit extra timer.

Having additional means of seeing coolant temp (via Scangauge) if possible is also a bonus. 

EGR block is also problematic on CrD models. In any case fitting boost control could improve performance.

Regards

[Rollinbob]

11 hours ago, Rumcajs said:

Hello,

I agree, just gauges would be enough so you're aware what is going on. CrD uses different ECM controls therefore playing around with various aspects of insufficient controls from previous model is probably pointless.

But I'd check how does glow circuit behave and if it does the same silly behaviour as in Di I'd fit extra timer.

Having additional means of seeing coolant temp (via Scangauge) if possible is also a bonus. 

EGR block is also problematic on CrD models. In any case fitting boost control could improve performance.

Regards

Hi.

Many thanks for the very informative reply, the Patrol has only done 186,000km so looking forward to a long relationship with her.

I have been searching for a good filter kit to do my own simple maintenance, a brand that has come up is Osk.

Do you by chance have an opinion?

I feel that Ryco are probably what I should be using but Osk are a cheaper version and doing 5,000km oil changes, maybe they are ok to use.

Cheers. Bob

 

[Rollinbob]

There is one other thing I would like advice on.

My last Patrol was a 2006 3L pre CRD.

Towing, it was very sluggish, it had the standard exhaust. Following the advice I received I put a 3" system on and noted a big difference in both fuel economy and power.

My new Patrol is 2009 GUVl CRD. I am not sure if a modified exhaust system is ok.

Cheers.

Bob.

 

 

[Rumcajs]

G'day,

I haven't heard of filter brands like Osk before, but I caution you with too cheap filters.....

Indeed I'd be looking at water separator in that case.

3" exhaust on CrD should be OK however a lot of people use 2.75" exhaust with very good result indeed better because 3" appears to be too big to maintain correct back pressure.

Beaudesert does make the entire set. ===> https://beauexhausts.com.au/product/patrol-gu-3l-exhaust/

The only issues with CrD is when people attempt to block EGR... causes MIL to come on.

Regards