Water injection.

[BigGQWesty]

Well I got a start.. Pump mounted to the tank, sprayer mounted in the air box, spring is mounted behind the peddle (not 100% happy with this, may go with the alum can switch) and flow rate sorted.

Flat out is 500mls/ min. I've adjusted the tap for 250m/ min. Got a few minor leaks which will be an easy fix with a cable tie..

So tomorrow all I have to do us fit the tank. Plumb it, wire it in and off I go...

[Glort]

Flat out is 500mls/ min.

The pump you have must be stronger than the ones I use. I get just over 300Ml min with mine.

I've adjusted the tap for 250m/ min.

Perfect!

Good to see you are not scared to squirt some in there!

Got a few minor leaks which will be an easy fix with a cable tie..

That's what I used as well.

Also tied the nozzle front and back on the air cleaner lid so the thing stays in the same spot.

Plumb it, wire it in and off I go...

I think at 30% you will still notice the go. If you want a bit more, Run 50% for your first tank to speed the cleaning process.

Then you will really notice the difference.

If you don't, the thing probably isn't working.

[BigGQWesty]

Gotta get it done first thing so I can go oil shopping..

[BigGQWesty]

Well that was a real HF.. Stupid little switch I bought with an led in it was a PITA.. Marked wrong, led wired wrong.. So after an hour of cutting and soldering it works but with no light...

So filled it up with 50-50 blend, and 250mls/ min as before, and took off..

Well I'm a little disappointed..

Didn't notice any power increase, no wheel chirps in 2nd even turning at an intersection in the wet...

About 5 mins of a small trail of smoke.. Nothing to get me smiling..

And she stutters around the 3g mark..

So am I missing something or is that it?

[Glort]

Is it actually squirting?

Did it use water and if you pull the lid off the air box, is the nozzle actually squirting water or do you have a blockage or leak somewhere?

250Ml@ 50% meth is better than 10hp. If it's working, You will notice it. If I gave mine full squirt round a corner in the wet with a 50% mix it would swap ends no trouble at all.

It would definitely break traction in the dry if I peddled it. I haven't got it to chirp into second unless I'm thrashing it though which I try to avoid.

It will stutter if the water is coming on at too low a revs. You could put it into a high gear and floor it and the water will be excessive for the engine speed. If this is happening you need to back the activation off a bit so it comes on in the top end where you want it not at cruise throttle settings.

If it didn't stutter before but if this is taking a while to happen as in will be k for a bit then stutter, the water may be running back to the bottle and not having time to get far enough along to squirt through the gears but when it is held in for a while, it gets pumped far enough along.

I'd take the cleaner lid off and activate the WI and make sure the squirt is happening straight away and the water is not running back in the tube.

You might want to fit an anti back flow valve off a windscreen washer setup which a lot of cars have. Retest you flow rate when you do because these put some restriction in the system and you may need to open your tap up more to get the right flow rate.

And on that, just double check your flow rate at the squirter.

No difference means no or too little flow.

Id say you are just having teething problems because it works a lot different to what you are seeing When it's set up right.

[BigGQWesty]

Ok.. It wheel spins in first anyway. But I never use first.. Lol

I'll check it tomorrow but it defiantly is working. It used probably 1ltr in 10 mins.. But in saying that i didn't put a hole in the lid so it was sucking in the bottle. May have been drawing it back once the pump stopped..

But as for the stutters at 3G rpm its a constant thing and it would climb above it.. I turned the unit off and after a couple of seconds it cleared and smoothed out..

So I've put a hole in the lid, but I'll still check for draw back.. I need a light to tell me when it on.. Might see if I can get an LED from somewhere tomorrow and wire it in.

[BigGQWesty]

Well, I thought I had found an issue. I didn't drill the hole in the lid far enough over to clear the hold down bar in the air filter.. When tightened down it was crimping the hose..

So I've move the hose over a bit more. Bolted it all back together and off for a drive and again.. Nothing different..

No smoke, no tyre smoking in 1st, and if anything I recon I've lost a bit uptop.. Climbing hills at about 3G in 3rd it stops pulling..

[Glort]

But as for the stutters at 3G rpm its a constant thing and it would climb above it.. I turned the unit off and after a couple of seconds it cleared and smoothed out..

Climbing hills at about 3G in 3rd it stops pulling..

Something is still wrong because the physics don't add up.

What I understand is you are presently running a 50% water meth mix and injecting it into the engine @250Ml min.

IF that is the case, what you are experiencing is at complete odd to Physics and practicality.

In a 50% Mix, the meth will burn off and make power and/ or smoke. On energy value the amount of meth you are adding is better than 10HP.

You would ether have to notice that in the increased energy being delivered to the engine or if the engine was maxed out on the air side, you would see it as smoke from excess fuel. If there is no smoke the engine is burning the Meth and would be generating more power.

The Meth is going to likely burn before the diesel being a lighter fraction which would leave the unburned Diesel to create smoke.

That only leaves 125Ml of water which there is no possibility is going to drown an engine that size (4.2?) at that RPM. ( 3000)

I would suggest either the mix or the delivery or delivery rate is off.

To me there still seems to be a possibility the water is not spraying through the gears but has time for the pump to prime or get to the nozzle when it is being held when climbing a hill or the system is being kicked in for longer.

It is the only explanation I can think of that explains symptoms of no/ very little water ( no noticed performance difference) and the engine drowning ( Bogging down)

When it stops pulling, do you see any smoke? I have seen engines loose some power when the water was too High but with that feed rate with 50% meth, I would also tend to think if the delivery was excessive, you would also hear some knocking or nailing as the excess meth fired off as well.

Pitty you are not in Sydney so I could have a look and give you a hand with it.

[twisty]

Keep at it BigGQ. I'm cheering for ya!

[BigGQWesty]

In the lower revs you can hear a slight knocking sound..

I've used black hose so I can't see what the water is doing while the lid is on, but I rechecked it all in place and I'm still at the 250m/min rate. I'll try find a 4mm one way valve, slip it in and recalibrate. I'll get back to you about it.

[Glort]

Exactly how are you triggering the WI and roughly what throttle percent are you triggering it at?

I have mine come in at about 3/4 throttle peddle travel. If I flatten my foot to the floor it might kick in at 1500 revs which is not ideal. Because of this I tend to use part throttle till the revs come up and then I tramp it to get the benefit in the top end. If I kick it in too early, it will pull harder but will also smoke a fair bit and in some cases Nail like hell on meth mix. It may also slightly bog down on water only if I get on the squirt too early but at the top end there is a very small increase in power even just with straight h20.

My truck is a poverty pack that only has a stupid blank panel where Missan were too cheap to even put a $2 clock so I can't tell you what rpms my WI kicks in. I do know that at 3K though, the thing should not be bogging at all with that mix at that delivery rate. It should be running right through there and pulling like a train because mine sure as hell does.

Once the engine is warmed up properly, the heat in the intake system and the mix running through the head and past the valves I would imagine would be enough to vaporise most of the meth out which boils at 65 so your results are very odd.

[BigGQWesty]

I can't say 100% were it kicks it, but I'm pretty sure it around the 1800 but I hope to grab a small led tonight to put in and tell me what's happening..

[Glort]

I'd be triggering it around the 2500 Mark.

That said, every engine is different and you may have to experiment some to find the best setting for your truck.

[BigGQWesty]

I'm usually upping gears around there... Lol

Might try a 25%meth mix, if I understand it that'll give me more burn able oxygen in the cylinder??

[Glort]

Backing the mix off will leave more air for the diesel to burn but I doubt that is your problem. Unlike petrol engines you an run diesels till there is fuel running out the tail pipe and they won't loose power.

as far as the revs go, Yeah, That's Kinda the point, the engine should be turning over pretty well not just cruising otherwise it will load up and there will not be enough turbulence in the Manifold and cylinders to move the water through without Puddling.

At this stage, I would be backing the delivery rate off say to your original 200Ml/ min and see how that goes. If the thing is stumbling at 50% @ 3000 rpm, I wouldn't expect increasing the water and backing off the meth to help.

Has the pump been turned up on the vehicle or are their any other engine, induction or exhaust mods done to the truck or is it basically stock?

[BigGQWesty]

To my knowledge it's stock as a rock with factory pump settings.. My bro is a mechanic though and had it for a while so he could have tweaked the pump.. I'll do a bit of fiddling, but no 4mm one way in the mount.. So eBay it is..

[BigGQWesty]

Just asked my bro a no tweaking was done. But I have to ask? How do you adjust the pump? Are you taking about the timing?

[Glort]

No, you turn up the fuelling screw.

There is a link to it somewhere, hopefully someone can guide you to as I forget it now.

You have to take off the fuel inlet banjo bolt to get to it and back off a locknut on the screw. From memory I did mine about a 1/4 turn or whatever was reccomended and it seemed about right. The thing blows a bit of smoke at the top end which is what I wanted because it means its getting all the fuel it can handle.

Made a hell of a difference to the way the thing goes though. Much more driveable and fun to drive. Went from struggling to keep up with the traffic off the lights (and often failing) to having no trouble to leaving it behind.... as long as the grandma on the way home from the senior cits in her charade isn't trying to get past into your lane from the inside!

Up a big mountain pass I travel every so often, I went from struggling to get up there at 60 to now having to back off so as not to go too far over the 80 limit. With my big trailer it went from a crawl up at 40 in 3rd to passing the occasional truck and not dropping below 70 at any point.

With the WI on, the temps went from borderline overheating to a much more comfortable 3/4 on the gauge.

It's very worthwhile doing.

[BigGQWesty]

What has it done to your fuel economy?

[Glort]

Well I'll guarantee it hasn't improved it!

Honestly, I don't know and I don't care given my situation with fuel. The only thing I do care about is range but that is more of a concern with knowing what it is rather than the qty and cost of the fuel. As far as I can tell, on country trips the difference is too small too tell. You cruise most of the way and it's only on the hills or over taking you use the extra power and in the overall time and distance of the trip, that isn't much.

Round the city, the driving I do is too variable for me to have much of a clue or concern.

It's like this though, you can't have economy and power in this case. The thing will go better by burning more fuel and more fuel means less economy. If economy is your main thing, leave the truck alone. If you don't mind paying a bit extra to get up that hill with the traffic rather than being a mobile obstacle, then tweak the thing.

Really despite all the hype and waffle, the biggest influence on economy is your right foot. It IS that simple.

If you get extra power and use it all the time your economy will suffer, it has to by laws of physics. If you use it sparingly and drive carefully, then the difference may be so small as not to notice. The likelihood is though, when you want the power you'll be happy to pay for it in economy.

Human nature is however if you have it, you use it so that may be something to bear in mind especially if you don't trust yourself.

[Bogmeister]

Well I'll guarantee it hasn't improved it!

Honestly, I don't know and I don't care given my situation with fuel. The only thing I do care about is range but that is more of a concern with knowing what it is rather than the qty and cost of the fuel. As far as I can tell, on country trips the difference is too small too tell. You cruise most of the way and it's only on the hills or over taking you use the extra power and in the overall time and distance of the trip, that isn't much.

Round the city, the driving I do is too variable for me to have much of a clue or concern.

It's like this though, you can't have economy and power in this case. The thing will go better by burning more fuel and more fuel means less economy. If economy is your main thing, leave the truck alone. If you don't mind paying a bit extra to get up that hill with the traffic rather than being a mobile obstacle, then tweak the thing.

Really despite all the hype and waffle, the biggest influence on economy is your right foot. It IS that simple.

If you get extra power and use it all the time your economy will suffer, it has to by laws of physics. If you use it sparingly and drive carefully, then the difference may be so small as not to notice. The likelihood is though, when you want the power you'll be happy to pay for it in economy.

Human nature is however if you have it, you use it so that may be something to bear in mind especially if you don't trust yourself.

That is honestly the best way I have ever heard it explained.

"GLORT FOR PRIMINISTER"

[BigGQWesty]

Ok.. So I don't know how but I rechecked flow rate today and it was 90mls/min... Yep.. Dunno...

So I've reset it up for 200mls/min and gone back to a 30% mix.

Fingers crossed. I'll let you know tomorrow..

[Glort]

Is it actually squirting?

Did it use water and if you pull the lid off the air box, is the nozzle actually squirting water or do you have a blockage or leak somewhere?

And on that, just double check your flow rate at the squirter.

No difference means no or too little flow.

I would suggest either the mix or the delivery or delivery rate is off.

It is the only explanation I can think of that explains symptoms of no/ very little water ( no noticed performance difference)

This is why I said to recheck the flow rate.

For some reason it seems to be what everyone stuffs up. I don't know how that happens but again it answers the results that didn't gel.

Before you go any further though. You still have a problem.

The stumbling at 3000 RPM.

Like I said, there was no way on gods earth that amount of water/ meth was going to cause stumbling and now you have found the actual rate is a heap lower, That proves even more so. Perhaps you have a blocked Fuel filter or lines or whatever but you do have a problem that is nothing to do with The WI. I suggest you fix that before you worry about anything else.

I know you said it cleared when you turned the WI off but that simply does not add up either. Must have been coincidence.

90Ml of water will not bog an engine that siz at that revs down, especially when you didn't see the symptoms lower in the rev range.

To me it sound like a fuel delivery problem so you have to have that sorted otherwise you will be thinking the WI is to blame when it's not.

Anyway, now you have found the delivery rate is off it explains why you saw no extra power or smoke or whatever.

I'd go to 300ml a min and quadruple check the flow rate to make sure that's what your getting.

At 200 I think the effect should be noticable but not that significant. you should be putting in around 10Hp worth of extra fuel with a 50% mix so you should begin to see some difference but it may be at the tipping point.

If ANYTHING is off this time ( no performance difference etc) First of all go back and check the flow rate again and make sure you are reading it properly. One guy told me he had water running out his exhaust at 150Ml min. I said that was impossible and we had an argument of sorts till he found his numbers were mixed up and he was in fact pumping in a huge 1.5 LITRES a min. His engine was a 3L.

That was helpful though to me in that it showed how much water you can pump in with the engine still being able to ( barely) Run and still not break anything.

Keen to know how it goes now you have found the problem.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Glort

[BigGQWesty]

I think the stumble may have been the water dropping out due to slow flow rate. At that slow rate it was just dribbling out the nozzle, and flooding just one or two cylinder. It did seem to my only 1-2 cylinders were missing.

Edited July 22, 2012 by BigGQWesty

[Glort]

I very much doubt that as the cause.

I pour water down my intake and it's easy to see the stream is broken up and torn apart in the manifold due to the air stream and what must be a partial vacuum in that area.

There is no way you are going to cause stumbles even if you squirt the water into the manifold in a jet at that rate with that mix..